I honestly think it has something to do with the bones being less dense and easier to move in these early formative years....AND mewing such a movement on social media amongst youngsters is probably a lot of it too. But I'm seeing people in their late 60s able to make noticable changes in their face/postures with mewing and facial stretching alone. The BS about the palate and facial bones being immoveable past 20 years old is being actively debunked, and I'm so here for it!
yes bone density could def be part of the equation..
But i also view mewing and any other soft tissue stretch as inflating a pool float but then leaving the cap open.
And the cap is the appliance (eg. myobrace, RevivOne, flat plane splint) because that prevents your progress from undoing.
Folks that mew aggressively enough will make some progress similar to the fact that if you keep blowing the float frequent enough you can keep it afloat without the cap.
But it will be far sturdier progress if u have a cap. And i have a feeling myobrace is being marketed far more effectively to kids than it is to adults
Well said! Mewing needs more supportive measures for most people than I think is being actively discussed right now. And the DNA appliance therapy isn't it....I don't think at least 😬🫤. Makes sense that the splints would be ideal for that because they don't lock in or stretch things in an unnatural way like the appliances do. If that makes sense. Still finding the words, haha.
And yes it definitely is being advertised more to kids here. I've been DIGGING the last month, seeing where myobrace is offered in the US.
Also myobrace in the US is not a huge thing yet but I think it will grow! Toothpillow is a telehealth, pediatric company that's growing here. It's the myobrace, with dentists and myofunctional therapists that work with the kiddos along their journey.
Among TMJ/ALF dentists i think most of them have known about myobrace for a good 10-20 yrs... at least that has been my experience having met 4-5 of them in the US
I'm hoping to become a myofunctional therapist for this company since I have an allied degree. It isn't nearly enough by itself but pairs well with other measures I think. I've been interested in it for a few years but your stuff has gotten me more excited about early intervention for kids specifically.
And that's good to know! I believe you that it probably has been known amongst dentist here for a long time. Crazy that they are still strongly pushing braces and/or Invisalign but those seem to be the "sexier" ways to go, probably because they make more money that way.
Absolutely! I will always credit you. And I have watched the videos of Dr. Stack's work too.
Yesterday I saw a post on Reddit of a guy who had all his molars flattened by a dentist. He was near suicidal.I linked your page here for him. I want to help!
Interesting post. Thanks for sharing this data. I'd like to share with you an interesting (perhaps) corollary with what you share and Chinese medicine meridians, and with Chinese martial arts.
In the Daoist (internal) martial arts systems (perhaps others too?) one is taught to place the tongue exactly as you describe. For several reasons they state: this will help increase saliva production (it is true), and also because it helps connect two meridians within the body. Namely the Du Mai and the Ren Mai. The tongue arch/connection helps with the flow and you're helping to bridge the gap. There is also the Chong mai (the 'Central' channel) in the same region of the mouth. Might be some interesting connections for you there, in reading about those meridians.
Many years ago, as I began my martial arts practice, one of the first really noticeable places to feel Qi flowing was, my tongue. Just interesting. That is commonly reported by others, too. Intense tingling that will begin, lasted several months for me, best I recall.
This is amazing info Ken! Really crucial stuff to know. I appreciated you bringing up that you don't really see the TMJ crowd contributing to mewing online. Often times when I have seen people with TMJ attempting mewing, it makes it worse or they don't see any results, despite persisting for months - years. Especially if they also have deep bite, a lot of tooth crowding or a bite that isn't ideal, teeth that didn't fully erupt, and existing TMJ pain. You talk a lot about the spine being twisted, and I'd bet that the more twisted and deflated things are, the harder it would become to gain any progress with mewing. Especially with grinding down teeth with age!
I tried the DIY polymorph clipins in the past (recommended by a few different mewing "influencers" online) but when you register them, they're like an indexed splint, instead of the flat plane splint that prevents occlusion! So they help add the ideal height that's so important between the mandible and the skull, and that's even more important if you have low tooth height and a super narrow palate and you're trying to mew. And do it while sleeping!
The clipins act like a deprogrammer splint (deprogramming strained muscles), but I still had so much pain with the pads being indexed to my bite, and I tried this for a few months but never saw any improvement in TMJ pain. That's why I appreciate people (with firsthand experience) being able to say that mewing isn't recommended for everyone, but there ARE things you can do to improve your existing foundation to hopefully get to the point where you can. Or use mewing as a sort of complimentary exercise, paired with splints, as you've said! Because correct tongue posture still plays a vital role in overall health.
I don't want to speak TOO soon, but I've been using the Reviv and making the flat plane polymorph clipins, and admittedly my head and neck pain has already significantly decreased!!! I have a long way to go....but having way less pain than I've had in years is a fucking WIN! 🙌🥳🎉
One more thing, when I tried to make this journey solely about "looksmaxxing" 😂 , I didn't make any progress and I got burned out and frustrated. Your info here is helping me piece everything together and it's making this process almost fun even, haha! In order to hope to ever have a good foundation, you have to UNDERSTAND the foundation. At a foundational level 😂. Thank God I'm not a writer lol 😂. I just have to be patient now. I'm sure it'll take a few years to get to where I'm envisioning.
Also, would you be able to link your post you wrote a few weeks back on the Mews into this post as well? 🙏 Just so hopefully people can easily see it? That's also really important stuff! Especially with the newer airway appliance technology that really seems to be taking off in the states here, and I don't think many people know yet about why Mew lost his license. Brilliant dude, but yeah. I've been in various Facebook and Reddit groups for a couple years and results with those appliances are VERY mixed. It's why I couldn't go through with the $20k payment. There's still a deeper understanding needing to be developed on how to use those things to move the skull in a 3D plane. IMHO at least 🤪
Hadn't heard about this $20k airway appliance. That sounds crazy.
I'd put my understanding of how the soft tissue works against anyone out there.
And based on that i'd say a simple rubber mouthguard will probably beat any $20k airway appliance over the longer-term.
You do not fix this problem without actively stretching things in the jaw. And so appliances need to create that stretch otherwise they either wont work or are very slow.
These people like the mews are all flying absolutely blind unless they understand what i wrote in the tracking splint post.
And when you're flying blind and getting mixed results but anyway coming out with a $20k appliance... i find that morally questionable.
I waited a long time to start Reviv... because i wanted to make sure i understood this shit in and out.
I'm not sure how much the appliance itself was, should have clarified. The entire plan, which involved Vivos - DNA appliance, myofunctional therapy, tongue tie revision, and ending with Invisalign was $20k, altogether. But I know for a fact a lot of the people in the 2 Facebook appliance groups I'm in are being quoted for around this amount as well. And well said, morally questionable indeed. Evidence based practice is SO important, and being able to track your progress as you go is just brilliant Ken!
Note that i completely agree that the tongue needs to be on the roof of the mouth but i find it very inefficient to focus on the tongue.
With my 'fast approach' i do not focus on the tongue at all. Rather i focus on where the soft tissue needs to be stretched.
And by doing that my tongue posture constantly improves.
So i view tongue posture more as a function of improving rather than the lever by which to do so.
A metaphor would be... tongue posture is like your small hand shovel. And learning how to stretch the soft tissue directly the way i do with the fast approach is like a bulldozer. The bulldozer is gonna move dirt a lot faster.
Yes!!! Makes sense that the tongue posture will natural improve as a result of these other measures. Focusing on the tongue alone caused more issues for me!
Haha I love your metaphors 🤣. They are making this all so much clearer for me!
Great post again I am wearing the revive one every night and can’t wait for you to reveal your stretching exercises so that I can progress quicker. Thanks Ken
Someone close to the Mewing community mentioned that kids and teens benefit the most.
And i bet that is because Myobrace is mainly marketed towards kids & teens.
Follow the patterns... and root cause begins to emerge :)
I honestly think it has something to do with the bones being less dense and easier to move in these early formative years....AND mewing such a movement on social media amongst youngsters is probably a lot of it too. But I'm seeing people in their late 60s able to make noticable changes in their face/postures with mewing and facial stretching alone. The BS about the palate and facial bones being immoveable past 20 years old is being actively debunked, and I'm so here for it!
yes bone density could def be part of the equation..
But i also view mewing and any other soft tissue stretch as inflating a pool float but then leaving the cap open.
And the cap is the appliance (eg. myobrace, RevivOne, flat plane splint) because that prevents your progress from undoing.
Folks that mew aggressively enough will make some progress similar to the fact that if you keep blowing the float frequent enough you can keep it afloat without the cap.
But it will be far sturdier progress if u have a cap. And i have a feeling myobrace is being marketed far more effectively to kids than it is to adults
Well said! Mewing needs more supportive measures for most people than I think is being actively discussed right now. And the DNA appliance therapy isn't it....I don't think at least 😬🫤. Makes sense that the splints would be ideal for that because they don't lock in or stretch things in an unnatural way like the appliances do. If that makes sense. Still finding the words, haha.
And yes it definitely is being advertised more to kids here. I've been DIGGING the last month, seeing where myobrace is offered in the US.
many ALF dentists will be using myobrace. You can look at their site for practitioners.
I hadnt heard about this dna appliance in many years and didnt know people were still doing it.
But its just a screw based expander and everything i said about palatal expanders in this post will hold true of it: https://reviv.substack.com/p/palate-expanders-are-completely-wrong
Good to know! 🙌
Also myobrace in the US is not a huge thing yet but I think it will grow! Toothpillow is a telehealth, pediatric company that's growing here. It's the myobrace, with dentists and myofunctional therapists that work with the kiddos along their journey.
yes i hear a lot about this toothpillow now.
Among TMJ/ALF dentists i think most of them have known about myobrace for a good 10-20 yrs... at least that has been my experience having met 4-5 of them in the US
I'm hoping to become a myofunctional therapist for this company since I have an allied degree. It isn't nearly enough by itself but pairs well with other measures I think. I've been interested in it for a few years but your stuff has gotten me more excited about early intervention for kids specifically.
And that's good to know! I believe you that it probably has been known amongst dentist here for a long time. Crazy that they are still strongly pushing braces and/or Invisalign but those seem to be the "sexier" ways to go, probably because they make more money that way.
yes... i very much align with myofunctional therapy as its similar to what i do with my stretches.
But they should also have patients wear a Reviv or myobrace as they do it.
You can be the first Reviv practitioner in the US! :)
Absolutely! I will always credit you. And I have watched the videos of Dr. Stack's work too.
Yesterday I saw a post on Reddit of a guy who had all his molars flattened by a dentist. He was near suicidal.I linked your page here for him. I want to help!
*being such a movement
Super interesting, good stuff!
Interesting post. Thanks for sharing this data. I'd like to share with you an interesting (perhaps) corollary with what you share and Chinese medicine meridians, and with Chinese martial arts.
In the Daoist (internal) martial arts systems (perhaps others too?) one is taught to place the tongue exactly as you describe. For several reasons they state: this will help increase saliva production (it is true), and also because it helps connect two meridians within the body. Namely the Du Mai and the Ren Mai. The tongue arch/connection helps with the flow and you're helping to bridge the gap. There is also the Chong mai (the 'Central' channel) in the same region of the mouth. Might be some interesting connections for you there, in reading about those meridians.
Many years ago, as I began my martial arts practice, one of the first really noticeable places to feel Qi flowing was, my tongue. Just interesting. That is commonly reported by others, too. Intense tingling that will begin, lasted several months for me, best I recall.
This is amazing info Ken! Really crucial stuff to know. I appreciated you bringing up that you don't really see the TMJ crowd contributing to mewing online. Often times when I have seen people with TMJ attempting mewing, it makes it worse or they don't see any results, despite persisting for months - years. Especially if they also have deep bite, a lot of tooth crowding or a bite that isn't ideal, teeth that didn't fully erupt, and existing TMJ pain. You talk a lot about the spine being twisted, and I'd bet that the more twisted and deflated things are, the harder it would become to gain any progress with mewing. Especially with grinding down teeth with age!
I tried the DIY polymorph clipins in the past (recommended by a few different mewing "influencers" online) but when you register them, they're like an indexed splint, instead of the flat plane splint that prevents occlusion! So they help add the ideal height that's so important between the mandible and the skull, and that's even more important if you have low tooth height and a super narrow palate and you're trying to mew. And do it while sleeping!
The clipins act like a deprogrammer splint (deprogramming strained muscles), but I still had so much pain with the pads being indexed to my bite, and I tried this for a few months but never saw any improvement in TMJ pain. That's why I appreciate people (with firsthand experience) being able to say that mewing isn't recommended for everyone, but there ARE things you can do to improve your existing foundation to hopefully get to the point where you can. Or use mewing as a sort of complimentary exercise, paired with splints, as you've said! Because correct tongue posture still plays a vital role in overall health.
I don't want to speak TOO soon, but I've been using the Reviv and making the flat plane polymorph clipins, and admittedly my head and neck pain has already significantly decreased!!! I have a long way to go....but having way less pain than I've had in years is a fucking WIN! 🙌🥳🎉
One more thing, when I tried to make this journey solely about "looksmaxxing" 😂 , I didn't make any progress and I got burned out and frustrated. Your info here is helping me piece everything together and it's making this process almost fun even, haha! In order to hope to ever have a good foundation, you have to UNDERSTAND the foundation. At a foundational level 😂. Thank God I'm not a writer lol 😂. I just have to be patient now. I'm sure it'll take a few years to get to where I'm envisioning.
Also, would you be able to link your post you wrote a few weeks back on the Mews into this post as well? 🙏 Just so hopefully people can easily see it? That's also really important stuff! Especially with the newer airway appliance technology that really seems to be taking off in the states here, and I don't think many people know yet about why Mew lost his license. Brilliant dude, but yeah. I've been in various Facebook and Reddit groups for a couple years and results with those appliances are VERY mixed. It's why I couldn't go through with the $20k payment. There's still a deeper understanding needing to be developed on how to use those things to move the skull in a 3D plane. IMHO at least 🤪
i added the links to the bottom.
Hadn't heard about this $20k airway appliance. That sounds crazy.
I'd put my understanding of how the soft tissue works against anyone out there.
And based on that i'd say a simple rubber mouthguard will probably beat any $20k airway appliance over the longer-term.
You do not fix this problem without actively stretching things in the jaw. And so appliances need to create that stretch otherwise they either wont work or are very slow.
These people like the mews are all flying absolutely blind unless they understand what i wrote in the tracking splint post.
And when you're flying blind and getting mixed results but anyway coming out with a $20k appliance... i find that morally questionable.
I waited a long time to start Reviv... because i wanted to make sure i understood this shit in and out.
I'm not sure how much the appliance itself was, should have clarified. The entire plan, which involved Vivos - DNA appliance, myofunctional therapy, tongue tie revision, and ending with Invisalign was $20k, altogether. But I know for a fact a lot of the people in the 2 Facebook appliance groups I'm in are being quoted for around this amount as well. And well said, morally questionable indeed. Evidence based practice is SO important, and being able to track your progress as you go is just brilliant Ken!
Thank you!
Note that i completely agree that the tongue needs to be on the roof of the mouth but i find it very inefficient to focus on the tongue.
With my 'fast approach' i do not focus on the tongue at all. Rather i focus on where the soft tissue needs to be stretched.
And by doing that my tongue posture constantly improves.
So i view tongue posture more as a function of improving rather than the lever by which to do so.
A metaphor would be... tongue posture is like your small hand shovel. And learning how to stretch the soft tissue directly the way i do with the fast approach is like a bulldozer. The bulldozer is gonna move dirt a lot faster.
Yes!!! Makes sense that the tongue posture will natural improve as a result of these other measures. Focusing on the tongue alone caused more issues for me!
Haha I love your metaphors 🤣. They are making this all so much clearer for me!
*naturally
Great post again I am wearing the revive one every night and can’t wait for you to reveal your stretching exercises so that I can progress quicker. Thanks Ken
if you 'mew' it will expedite the process.
👍brilliant I will do
I appreciate you sharing your writing on this topic! You might find this website interesting!
https://tooth-for-a-tooth.com/starecta/rectifier_new_and_old/
Ooh thank you for sharing this and I’m so glad you never gave up!
i was the 2nd person outside of italy to do starecta in 2014 and did starecta on and off for a few years but found it to be flawed.
i explained why here: https://reviv.substack.com/p/my-thoughts-on-the-diy-method-starecta?utm_source=publication-search
The writer of tooth-a-tooth wrote about me back then actually https://tooth-for-a-tooth.com/starecta/ken/
i think they were in the old starecta fb group around those years as they bring up a lot of topics that were discussed there
I can't even mew while wearing a mouthguard
I am not saying you need to wear a mouthguard while mewing. There is zero benefit to that.
Im saying you need to wear a mouthguard to sleep after mewing.