It would be really helpful to make a rescource of orthodontist in the U.S. who are willing to place the bite blocks on children & adults as im sure this is tough to find.
Hi Ken, I am wondering if there have been some resources added to your skool group. I am considering getting this process started for myself & my kids. Thank you!
I was reading your suggestions for kids and your own experience with the Myobrace being difficult for your son to keep in at night. I found the info on turbos to be very interesting, just not sure how I would go about finding a dentist near me in the US who would do that if needed. I didn’t know if people had started compiling a list.
Will adding composite on the back molars work for adults as well? I'm going to see my TMJ dentist in January and trying to decide between the Vivos DNA ($10k cost) or experimenting with flat composite which I assume is a lot less expensive even if my dentist has to repair/replace it regularly.
Hi Ken, it had been a couple of months since I read this post but just came back to it again. Question: for a 16 year old, is Reviv2 likely to be too big? My daughter just started wearing the reviv2 only at night time and she is doing fine with it. Except, in the beginning she was wearing the reviv2 on top of her retainers (we went through the entire myobrace/invisalign journey before finding reviv for the family). Anyway, she decided to take out the retainers and start using just reviv2, but now her teeth have started moving back to their original (not-so-perfect in a teenager's mind) position. What do you suggest is the best path here? I guess Im asking two questions: 1) is reviv2 ok and is it ok to wear it just at night, which is what she does, 2) the question about wearing reviv2 without the retainer - thank you!!!
About taking the retainers off... it is important to remember that the teeth will always move. But usually that movement will be to a better/healthier position over the longer term as long as the teen is disciplined about wearing to sleep and 2-3 hrs during the day.
If she cant get in the 2-3 hrs during the day then i suggest she at least wear a clipon on one side for that amount of time to keep the teeth separated.
Are you saying that children with crowded teeth will fix all crowding by using a Myobrace or the Reviv (if older)? No braces needed to have straight, uncrowded teeth just by using a Myobrace or other?
My son just turned 8. Has a decent overbite and 1 ankylos tooth on his upper left side. Advice has been to pull that tooth. Moving forward we’re starting to think about fixing the structural imbalances, etc. wondering which mouthgaurd you would recommend as I seem to recalll you saying the Reviv one might be too big??
Are you able to explain how adding composite to molars aids in widening the palate? I just don't understand the how and why and I would love to. Thank you.
I just don’t get why children aren’t developing this naturally? We’re only adding a temporary fix as soon as we take away the dental height from external sources we fall back into biomechanical collapse so what’s causing this?
Going down a similar road as you did with my son. Weston A Price, Pallat expansion, but with a retainer type device. It has definitely helped open up his airway and improved his sleep, massive reduction in ear infections and congestion as well. His teeth are also separated now when before, they were already going crooked at 4 years old.
My kids have trouble keeping their mouth closed with the myobrace at night. So when they wake up its not in their mouth. Any advice on how to keep it in? Do you think over time they will eventually keep their mouth closed?
I struggled with the same with my kid for years. And finally just put composite on his teeth and that was the game changer.
That is what i recommend for kids <10 yrs old.
So much more effective than wrestling with getting them to keep the guard in their mouth.
Some kids prob can get to the point where they keep their mouth closed. But i wouldnt be surprised if some kids just never get there... and the parents give up trying. that was my case.
Interesting. Question for you about adults. I'm a 43-yo man. How long would you expect it to take using the Reviv mouthguard to see noticeable results? One thing I like about your approach is you say "do this and it will work." It's a very specific prediction so I'm wondering how long you'd give it to actually see it work. Thanks!
@Thinkagain123: I'm 49 and have had a long history of TMJ symptoms due to orthodontic work when I was a kid. After I started wearing a mouthguard (Shock Doctor upper braces type), my TMJ pain went away in 24 hours and hasn't come back in 3+ weeks.
Something else I noticed is that nocturnal urination is less frequent. I
used to wake up 3 times or more every night to pee. Now I just get up once at most. It's great to have uninterrupted sleep again!
Only mild sleep apnea. My AHI is 7.3 and I do wake up several times a night. Serious but also perfectly manageable and I feel great most days. I don’t have any other symptoms or ailments. I’m interested in your ideas though and think they could be useful even for people not obviously suffering. :)
General strategy is that adult teeth grow into the new height behind it. And baby teeth with composite fall off.
It would be really helpful to make a rescource of orthodontist in the U.S. who are willing to place the bite blocks on children & adults as im sure this is tough to find.
yes true.. that's a good idea. I'll think about the best way to potentially set that in motion
Thank you!
Hi Ken, I am wondering if there have been some resources added to your skool group. I am considering getting this process started for myself & my kids. Thank you!
you mean adding the composite? No, we dont have anything in the skool group yet.
What were u looking for?
I was reading your suggestions for kids and your own experience with the Myobrace being difficult for your son to keep in at night. I found the info on turbos to be very interesting, just not sure how I would go about finding a dentist near me in the US who would do that if needed. I didn’t know if people had started compiling a list.
some people had mentioned they'd look for doctors but we never got any feedback back with which to build a list.
Okay, thank you!
I sounds like not yet though :)
Will adding composite on the back molars work for adults as well? I'm going to see my TMJ dentist in January and trying to decide between the Vivos DNA ($10k cost) or experimenting with flat composite which I assume is a lot less expensive even if my dentist has to repair/replace it regularly.
Vivos DNA is more or less a palate expander so all the things i wrote here will apply: https://reviv.substack.com/p/palate-expanders-are-completely-wrong?utm_source=publication-search
And it will essentially prevent the reviv from working if you wear this.
Flat composite works great on adults. I’ve got a guy from my first group who lives in india doing it for 1.5 years now and loves it.
It costs me $50 to have this done with my kid here in bangkok. But yes dentists in the US will charge a lot more.
Dentists will often refer to it as ‘turbos’.
This says that the Reviv one is $25 including shipping but the website says $100.
The $100 includes community access and support. Here's the link for the product only: https://shop.getreviv.com/products/reviv-one-without-support
Thank you!
Hi Ken, it had been a couple of months since I read this post but just came back to it again. Question: for a 16 year old, is Reviv2 likely to be too big? My daughter just started wearing the reviv2 only at night time and she is doing fine with it. Except, in the beginning she was wearing the reviv2 on top of her retainers (we went through the entire myobrace/invisalign journey before finding reviv for the family). Anyway, she decided to take out the retainers and start using just reviv2, but now her teeth have started moving back to their original (not-so-perfect in a teenager's mind) position. What do you suggest is the best path here? I guess Im asking two questions: 1) is reviv2 ok and is it ok to wear it just at night, which is what she does, 2) the question about wearing reviv2 without the retainer - thank you!!!
hi Evren,
R2 medium should be ok for a teenager but best is to measure as i show here: https://www.loom.com/share/dafd22854a42404cabf3068def229130
About taking the retainers off... it is important to remember that the teeth will always move. But usually that movement will be to a better/healthier position over the longer term as long as the teen is disciplined about wearing to sleep and 2-3 hrs during the day.
If she cant get in the 2-3 hrs during the day then i suggest she at least wear a clipon on one side for that amount of time to keep the teeth separated.
i show how to make the clipons here https://www.skool.com/reviv-2885/polymorph-clipons
They're very fast and cheap and they should keep things moving in the right direction
And yes i think taking off the retainer was the right move https://reviv.substack.com/p/why-i-think-retainers-are-evil
Are you saying that children with crowded teeth will fix all crowding by using a Myobrace or the Reviv (if older)? No braces needed to have straight, uncrowded teeth just by using a Myobrace or other?
yes.. i am. As long as they wear it to sleep and 2-3 hrs during the day.
Bonus if they also do some thumbpulling or mewing or something like that.
I wrote this:
https://reviv.substack.com/p/does-reviv-straighten-the-teeth
https://reviv.substack.com/p/why-are-braces-bad
My son just turned 8. Has a decent overbite and 1 ankylos tooth on his upper left side. Advice has been to pull that tooth. Moving forward we’re starting to think about fixing the structural imbalances, etc. wondering which mouthgaurd you would recommend as I seem to recalll you saying the Reviv one might be too big??
i'd try to use the mouthguard before pulling any teeth. Taking out teeth is never a good idea in my view https://reviv.substack.com/p/are-dental-extractions-bad
r1 small would probably fit him. r2 medium might.
But you can also explore the myobrace k2 series on aliexpress as they have smaller sizes
https://reviv.substack.com/p/the-approach-to-take-for-kids
Thanks! Just ordered the reviv one. Is there a fit guide? What would constitute a proper fit?
there are size charts that are linked to from the product pages on our site.
Most adult males will be a large on R1 as small is quite small
So how long/until what age would you keep doing the composite? Or is it a forever process?
i would leave it till adult teeth come in around it at the fully extruded height.
Then i would just forget about it. Let it wear off, etc.
The occlusion will be maintained by the rest of the teeth
Thanks!
And if we went with a myobrace approach? Similar idea? Use the myobrace until adult teeth are in place?
yes, and perhaps even continue.
I tell folks.. "I think in 10-20 years people will use a mouthguard to sleep as much as a toothbrush."
As it literally halts and reverses the aging process on a human with no downside.
Its a no brainer to wear a mouthguard to sleep for every human being in my view. And for their entire life.
Which if im right might be 200+ years one day.
Are you able to explain how adding composite to molars aids in widening the palate? I just don't understand the how and why and I would love to. Thank you.
It widens the palate by doing these 2 things:
1 - Add vertical between the upper and lower teeth
2- Unlock the occlusion (upper and lower teeth should not come together in a fixed position)
i wrote this which is a bit relevant https://reviv.substack.com/p/does-this-process-widen-the-palate
I just don’t get why children aren’t developing this naturally? We’re only adding a temporary fix as soon as we take away the dental height from external sources we fall back into biomechanical collapse so what’s causing this?
i wrote about this a bit here: https://reviv.substack.com/p/biomechanics-and-pregnancy
I'm quite confident a compensated mother compresses her child while still in the womb. Osteopaths that work on newborns typically talk about this
Pottenger's cats is probably the answer.
Going down a similar road as you did with my son. Weston A Price, Pallat expansion, but with a retainer type device. It has definitely helped open up his airway and improved his sleep, massive reduction in ear infections and congestion as well. His teeth are also separated now when before, they were already going crooked at 4 years old.
Are all expanders the same in your book?
Its important to keep the physics in mind when answering that question.
Teeth need to be able to move where they want to go and not be forced to go somewhere.
Vertical needs to be added to the height when expanding. And the expansion process needs to be slow, not overly forced.
Because you want the curve of spee to develop.
So if the expander adheres to that its fine. Problem is most of them dont.
If you were for example to use an ALF with turbos (composite) and go slow.. you’d probably do well.
My daughter was recommended the ALF and myobrace. What are your thoughts on that?
i think the alf is a waste of money. I wrote about it here: https://reviv.substack.com/p/does-the-alf-work
Stick to myobrace.
All u really need is the appliance. A myobrace costs ~$100 on aliexpress.
All the 'program' stuff is mainly bs. THe stuff i do is far faster.
And id actually bought that myobrace program and had the app for my son back in 2019 or so
My kids have trouble keeping their mouth closed with the myobrace at night. So when they wake up its not in their mouth. Any advice on how to keep it in? Do you think over time they will eventually keep their mouth closed?
I struggled with the same with my kid for years. And finally just put composite on his teeth and that was the game changer.
That is what i recommend for kids <10 yrs old.
So much more effective than wrestling with getting them to keep the guard in their mouth.
Some kids prob can get to the point where they keep their mouth closed. But i wouldnt be surprised if some kids just never get there... and the parents give up trying. that was my case.
Thanks for the feedback. How slow is slow?
Does the composite come off eventually? Or does it have to stay there forever?
The adult teeth grow into the new height behind it. And baby teeth with composite fall off.
Interesting. Question for you about adults. I'm a 43-yo man. How long would you expect it to take using the Reviv mouthguard to see noticeable results? One thing I like about your approach is you say "do this and it will work." It's a very specific prediction so I'm wondering how long you'd give it to actually see it work. Thanks!
Depends on your symptoms. 200+ have bought reviv at this point.
Based on the journals i'm reading and feedback i get.. i think almost everyone feels it doing something in the first week.
Then some symptoms go away faster than others. So it depends what symptoms you have.
But your body should be signalling to you pretty fast that its recovering.
@Thinkagain123: I'm 49 and have had a long history of TMJ symptoms due to orthodontic work when I was a kid. After I started wearing a mouthguard (Shock Doctor upper braces type), my TMJ pain went away in 24 hours and hasn't come back in 3+ weeks.
Something else I noticed is that nocturnal urination is less frequent. I
used to wake up 3 times or more every night to pee. Now I just get up once at most. It's great to have uninterrupted sleep again!
Dang nice. Thanks for the note and great to hear for you. Glad you’re improving!
Only mild sleep apnea. My AHI is 7.3 and I do wake up several times a night. Serious but also perfectly manageable and I feel great most days. I don’t have any other symptoms or ailments. I’m interested in your ideas though and think they could be useful even for people not obviously suffering. :)
Thanks. I guess I mean to notice anything. When you say quickly do you mean within 3 weeks? 3 months? 18 months?
depends on what symptoms you're referring to.
What are you trying to improve?
But generally i'd say almost everyone says they're clearly improving within 3 weeks.
However depending on the symtpom.. it will take much longer to completely get rid of