34 Comments
User's avatar
EGK's avatar

General strategy is that adult teeth grow into the new height behind it. And baby teeth with composite fall off.

Expand full comment
Kailey's avatar

It would be really helpful to make a rescource of orthodontist in the U.S. who are willing to place the bite blocks on children & adults as im sure this is tough to find.

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

yes true.. that's a good idea. I'll think about the best way to potentially set that in motion

Expand full comment
Kailey's avatar

Thank you!

Expand full comment
Jay Changstein's avatar

Will adding composite on the back molars work for adults as well? I'm going to see my TMJ dentist in January and trying to decide between the Vivos DNA ($10k cost) or experimenting with flat composite which I assume is a lot less expensive even if my dentist has to repair/replace it regularly.

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

Vivos DNA is more or less a palate expander so all the things i wrote here will apply: https://reviv.substack.com/p/palate-expanders-are-completely-wrong?utm_source=publication-search

And it will essentially prevent the reviv from working if you wear this.

Flat composite works great on adults. I’ve got a guy from my first group who lives in india doing it for 1.5 years now and loves it.

It costs me $50 to have this done with my kid here in bangkok. But yes dentists in the US will charge a lot more.

Dentists will often refer to it as ‘turbos’.

Expand full comment
Manda's avatar

This says that the Reviv one is $25 including shipping but the website says $100.

Expand full comment
Jay Changstein's avatar

The $100 includes community access and support. Here's the link for the product only: https://shop.getreviv.com/products/reviv-one-without-support

Expand full comment
Manda's avatar

Thank you!

Expand full comment
Jack's avatar

I just don’t get why children aren’t developing this naturally? We’re only adding a temporary fix as soon as we take away the dental height from external sources we fall back into biomechanical collapse so what’s causing this?

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

i wrote about this a bit here: https://reviv.substack.com/p/biomechanics-and-pregnancy

I'm quite confident a compensated mother compresses her child while still in the womb. Osteopaths that work on newborns typically talk about this

Expand full comment
Fruitarian's avatar

Pottenger's cats is probably the answer.

Expand full comment
Dani's avatar

So how long/until what age would you keep doing the composite? Or is it a forever process?

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

i would leave it till adult teeth come in around it at the fully extruded height.

Then i would just forget about it. Let it wear off, etc.

The occlusion will be maintained by the rest of the teeth

Expand full comment
Dani's avatar

Thanks!

And if we went with a myobrace approach? Similar idea? Use the myobrace until adult teeth are in place?

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

yes, and perhaps even continue.

I tell folks.. "I think in 10-20 years people will use a mouthguard to sleep as much as a toothbrush."

As it literally halts and reverses the aging process on a human with no downside.

Its a no brainer to wear a mouthguard to sleep for every human being in my view. And for their entire life.

Which if im right might be 200+ years one day.

Expand full comment
Ashley Woodworth's avatar

Are you able to explain how adding composite to molars aids in widening the palate? I just don't understand the how and why and I would love to. Thank you.

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

It widens the palate by doing these 2 things:

1 - Add vertical between the upper and lower teeth

2- Unlock the occlusion (upper and lower teeth should not come together in a fixed position)

i wrote this which is a bit relevant https://reviv.substack.com/p/does-this-process-widen-the-palate

Expand full comment
Delred's avatar

Going down a similar road as you did with my son. Weston A Price, Pallat expansion, but with a retainer type device. It has definitely helped open up his airway and improved his sleep, massive reduction in ear infections and congestion as well. His teeth are also separated now when before, they were already going crooked at 4 years old.

Are all expanders the same in your book?

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

Its important to keep the physics in mind when answering that question.

Teeth need to be able to move where they want to go and not be forced to go somewhere.

Vertical needs to be added to the height when expanding. And the expansion process needs to be slow, not overly forced.

Because you want the curve of spee to develop.

So if the expander adheres to that its fine. Problem is most of them dont.

If you were for example to use an ALF with turbos (composite) and go slow.. you’d probably do well.

Expand full comment
Michelle-Marie's avatar

My daughter was recommended the ALF and myobrace. What are your thoughts on that?

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

i think the alf is a waste of money. I wrote about it here: https://reviv.substack.com/p/does-the-alf-work

Stick to myobrace.

All u really need is the appliance. A myobrace costs ~$100 on aliexpress.

All the 'program' stuff is mainly bs. THe stuff i do is far faster.

And id actually bought that myobrace program and had the app for my son back in 2019 or so

Expand full comment
Michelle-Marie's avatar

My kids have trouble keeping their mouth closed with the myobrace at night. So when they wake up its not in their mouth. Any advice on how to keep it in? Do you think over time they will eventually keep their mouth closed?

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

I struggled with the same with my kid for years. And finally just put composite on his teeth and that was the game changer.

That is what i recommend for kids <10 yrs old.

So much more effective than wrestling with getting them to keep the guard in their mouth.

Some kids prob can get to the point where they keep their mouth closed. But i wouldnt be surprised if some kids just never get there... and the parents give up trying. that was my case.

Expand full comment
Delred's avatar

Thanks for the feedback. How slow is slow?

Expand full comment
Thinkagain123's avatar

Interesting. Question for you about adults. I'm a 43-yo man. How long would you expect it to take using the Reviv mouthguard to see noticeable results? One thing I like about your approach is you say "do this and it will work." It's a very specific prediction so I'm wondering how long you'd give it to actually see it work. Thanks!

Expand full comment
Jay Changstein's avatar

@Thinkagain123: I'm 49 and have had a long history of TMJ symptoms due to orthodontic work when I was a kid. After I started wearing a mouthguard (Shock Doctor upper braces type), my TMJ pain went away in 24 hours and hasn't come back in 3+ weeks.

Something else I noticed is that nocturnal urination is less frequent. I

used to wake up 3 times or more every night to pee. Now I just get up once at most. It's great to have uninterrupted sleep again!

Expand full comment
Thinkagain123's avatar

Dang nice. Thanks for the note and great to hear for you. Glad you’re improving!

Expand full comment
Thinkagain123's avatar

Only mild sleep apnea. My AHI is 7.3 and I do wake up several times a night. Serious but also perfectly manageable and I feel great most days. I don’t have any other symptoms or ailments. I’m interested in your ideas though and think they could be useful even for people not obviously suffering. :)

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

Depends on your symptoms. 200+ have bought reviv at this point.

Based on the journals i'm reading and feedback i get.. i think almost everyone feels it doing something in the first week.

Then some symptoms go away faster than others. So it depends what symptoms you have.

But your body should be signalling to you pretty fast that its recovering.

Expand full comment
Thinkagain123's avatar

Thanks. I guess I mean to notice anything. When you say quickly do you mean within 3 weeks? 3 months? 18 months?

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

depends on what symptoms you're referring to.

What are you trying to improve?

But generally i'd say almost everyone says they're clearly improving within 3 weeks.

However depending on the symtpom.. it will take much longer to completely get rid of

Expand full comment
Roman's avatar

Does the composite come off eventually? Or does it have to stay there forever?

Expand full comment
EGK's avatar

The adult teeth grow into the new height behind it. And baby teeth with composite fall off.

Expand full comment