Thank you for the discussion. I think I see it a little more clearly now. I wanted to understand more before I placed my order because $100 is a big chunk of change for me. I don't want to lose my money on a dupe. Now I do have a better picture of why it works like it does so I'm ready to take the leap. Thanks, everyone, for your input.
So one more thing if you wore the mouthguard and over time it fixed the curve of spee then it should stay permanently or let’s say it’s like a certain vitamin your body needs but it doesn’t make that vitamin, you could supplement that vitamin and change what you are deficient in but until you figure out the reason your body is deficient in, you are addressing the symptom and when you stop you will revert back to being deficient in it. I probably sound redundant . I’m trying to grasp this
The thing to remember Carol is that you are supposed to have a big set of healthy teeth that are long and well extruded. And have a curve of spee in them.
It is not Reviv's fault that you don't have that and that is at the root of the problem.
If you stopped wearing the mouthguard but instead had these healthy teeth with a curve of spee (as your body was originally designed) than you would be fine.
Your body was structurally engineered to be as it was designed in a person with perfect structure. And it wasnt designed missing teeth or missing a curve of spee.
Your open bite will have problems whether or not you wear the mouthguard at night. You have an open bite. So you have symptoms of open bite. End of discussion?
If it worked that way I wouldn't be improving this whole time the last few years with a posterior open bite and sleeping with a mouthguard at night.
Nor would the group that was in my test group that started almost 2 yrs ago be improving.
And there wouldn't be a number of others in Reviv right now who are improving as they start to have a small posterior open bite.
But yes, lets end this discussion here as I dont see any point in continuing. I am speaking from years of experience and you are obviously speaking from the perspective of just making shit up.
It’s ok to end the discussion. One last thing is this (and what I am trying to say this whole time but you seem to ignore this honestly) You probably didn’t watch the video i linked in the chat-discussion, but in that video, they are pretty much saying that you will have benefits from doing starecta (or your method as its quite similar), mainly in a neurological, mental and energy-way. Which is exactly what you say you’re experiencing. But they add to that that you create other structural issues by simply adding the vertical height as you lengthen the face and create an open bite. So what I am getting at is this: the fact you have improvements does not mean you are not creating other problems. And I’ll leave it at that.
I will just leave it as... these people you refer to are perhaps at the level of knowledge i had years ago. And I understand this stuff far better than them.
But i'm done arguing that.
Don't do Reviv. It is as simple as that.
And if i'm wrong... people will figure it out and complain.
See the issue with what you are writing about seems to me as treating the symptom, because if you stop wearing the mouthguard or don’t get composite then it goes back to the way it was. In my opinion if it was the cause being treated it would change it permanently do you see what I’m saying. It’s addressing the cause but it really doesn’t change it , that’s why I’m saying what I’m saying . Generally treating the cause would fix it. So it’s actually a play on words, you’re treating the cause but you are not fixing the cause, otherwise you wouldn’t have to wear the mouth guard forever. If putting composite on your molers fixed something a previous dentist should have done and that corrects the curve of spee then that would be fixing it. This Is how I am seeing it. Then I have a dillema, I don’t have molers on the bottom so what happens to me, just sayin
Not any different from losing a leg on a chair. To fix the chair you need a 4th leg on the chair. Is that a "temporary" fix that you're leaving this leg to the chair that wasnt there before?
In my view its still a permanent structural fix.
You dont need to wear a mouthguard your whole life if you do some other permanent fix. Which can be for example:
1- adding flat composite on any teeth (@Gypsy - this can include putting the high contact on any teeth. I wore a splint like the NTI-tss with contact on incisors for months back in 2022 and it worked fine)
2- adapting the design of your dentures (eg. adjusting such that teeth dont fit together in a fixed position but rather have a flat contact by changing the surface of some of the teeth on the dentures a little bit)
Carol - You need to be a bit more creative than the others given that you dont have teeth. And i havent dealt with a situation like yours yet. But in my view a little bit of engineering creativity with your dentures gives you a permanent fix.
Well I think what I have to do is since I do have a less than perfect partial for my lower teeth I can still use it for the contact with the upper dentures. You said the composite should make it a little higher in the back right? Well mine is somewhat higher and although I can’t eat with it ( too loose) it’s ok for cosmetic use also I will try it tonight while I sleep.
To give credit to you and the mouth guard I felt and I finally had no more pain in my lower teeth or being so crowded that I needed to take it out. Also to my surprise my upper lip seems to have filled out where it was it was dropping on the right side starting to collapse like sinking in when you see those pictures of old ladies without dentures in like their mouth looks like a butt hole , sorry but that’s what I used to compare it with. This morning I see the improvement, plus I slept really well last night. I wish I would have taken before and during and after pictures.
hahaha yes... this is just the beginning carol. Things will continue to improve.. just keep at it.
About the composite the important elements should be that it adds vertical to your natural bite (this creates the stretch) and it doesnt lock an occlusion (meaning teeth dont come together in a fixed position).
But reality is it can be on your front or back or middle teeth. Doesnt really matter from what ive seen in my own tests.
I always just say back because it is less visible.
Yes I don’t think I’ll have to worry about having back teeth on the bottom because I have several teeth that make contact my real teeth, cause my natural teeth are all the front all the way back to unless I have two molars so they make contact and that’s why the mouthguard probably is seems to be fitting so well now and not hurting me. I don’t know why, but I don’t know if I’m gonna sleep with my bottom partial or not. I can’t find it right this minutel lol!
Hey Gypsy let’s try and stay in touch with each other because I’m very creative about making things that we can use as an alternative. Well where there’s a will there’s a way . The mouth guard is good, we can add things to make it work better since we don’t have the rear teeth, sound good?
I'm also conflicted about being left with an open posterior bite, but I decided a month ago my health will probably just continue to decline if I don't do something about it. I'm only 32 and kinda feel like shit. But my daily headaches of 5 years are GONE. I still have a longgggggg way to go but I deeply understand the importance of supporting my structure starting with the height of my teeth...supporting my structure from within, because I'm LIVING it now.
Also, I'm perfectly ok wearing a brace to sleep in for the rest of my life, I want to protect what I have! My teeth did not extrude all the way, that's not something I can change. Because my structure didn't develop well right out the gate I can still find ways to adapt, no matter what. Because I'm a survivor and a scrappy one at that!
I'm really eager to see how you got about this Carol! I agree with Ken, I think you can be really creative with it. I have all my teeth still but my dad doesn't have any molars left and his health has really changed in the last 10 years. I'm really hoping I can know how to help him someday.
When did he lose his molers or back teeth. I haven’t had mine for over 30 years but that’s not when my health started going downhill . About a year and a half ago my one anchor tooth that my partial clipped onto broke off at the gum line and I no longer had a tooth for my partial to stay on with. That partial was 32 yrs old well actually that was my 2nd one.
So I had a real dilemma I had 3 upper teeth that had to be extracted before I could do anything. I didn’t have enough bone to get implants. I didn’t really want to go through that long process and in hind sight I should have gotten a 2 nd opinion and maybe gotten another partial that would work. Anyway since the dentures my digestion is fucked up. Acid reflux, heartburn , headaches, recent crepitis in my neck, incontinence , you name it my scoliosis has seem to progress. My hair used to be really thick and beautiful now it’s falling out, because I can’t chew with these damn fake teeth. I’m lucky that I’m stubborn and strong willed. Anyway enough about me. Now I’m on the war path to get myself better and I can do it. With being more knowledgeable, so stick with me and watch the miracles happen, and they will . You better believe they will.
I know, I am not trying to discount Ken but we are talking a play on words. He is addressing the root cause but not treating it or basically treating but not fixing. Fixing would suggest not having to wear a mouth guard for the rest of your life. However if the composite made it so you didn’t have to wear a mouth guard then that’s different. What about you and me though without back teeth. I do have an ill fitting lower partial which I feel the teeth are too high, but maybe that’s what the composite does. I’m really just trying to understand. I’m not sure if Ken already said somewhere, How does the curve of spee get messed up with to begin with? Shoddy dental work is that what he said.
Yes this ill fitting lower partial sounds like it is somewhat similar to what the composite does.
But you will need to either get your dentist onboard with this idea and have him adapt it such that it works like flat composite. Or you need to try to do it yourself somehow.
Curve of spee gets messed up many way:
1- tons of kids (esp in america) are born without the arches developing correctly and the teeth extruding properly
Thank you for the discussion. I think I see it a little more clearly now. I wanted to understand more before I placed my order because $100 is a big chunk of change for me. I don't want to lose my money on a dupe. Now I do have a better picture of why it works like it does so I'm ready to take the leap. Thanks, everyone, for your input.
also dont forget... if you want to return it b/c you dont think its working than you can just ask for a refund.
I dont want anyone that doesnt get value out of Reviv to have paid anything for it.
So one more thing if you wore the mouthguard and over time it fixed the curve of spee then it should stay permanently or let’s say it’s like a certain vitamin your body needs but it doesn’t make that vitamin, you could supplement that vitamin and change what you are deficient in but until you figure out the reason your body is deficient in, you are addressing the symptom and when you stop you will revert back to being deficient in it. I probably sound redundant . I’m trying to grasp this
The thing to remember Carol is that you are supposed to have a big set of healthy teeth that are long and well extruded. And have a curve of spee in them.
It is not Reviv's fault that you don't have that and that is at the root of the problem.
If you stopped wearing the mouthguard but instead had these healthy teeth with a curve of spee (as your body was originally designed) than you would be fine.
Your body was structurally engineered to be as it was designed in a person with perfect structure. And it wasnt designed missing teeth or missing a curve of spee.
That is the thing to grasp in my view.
Your open bite will have problems whether or not you wear the mouthguard at night. You have an open bite. So you have symptoms of open bite. End of discussion?
No, that is not how it works.
If it worked that way I wouldn't be improving this whole time the last few years with a posterior open bite and sleeping with a mouthguard at night.
Nor would the group that was in my test group that started almost 2 yrs ago be improving.
And there wouldn't be a number of others in Reviv right now who are improving as they start to have a small posterior open bite.
But yes, lets end this discussion here as I dont see any point in continuing. I am speaking from years of experience and you are obviously speaking from the perspective of just making shit up.
It’s ok to end the discussion. One last thing is this (and what I am trying to say this whole time but you seem to ignore this honestly) You probably didn’t watch the video i linked in the chat-discussion, but in that video, they are pretty much saying that you will have benefits from doing starecta (or your method as its quite similar), mainly in a neurological, mental and energy-way. Which is exactly what you say you’re experiencing. But they add to that that you create other structural issues by simply adding the vertical height as you lengthen the face and create an open bite. So what I am getting at is this: the fact you have improvements does not mean you are not creating other problems. And I’ll leave it at that.
cool you've said your peace.
I will just leave it as... these people you refer to are perhaps at the level of knowledge i had years ago. And I understand this stuff far better than them.
But i'm done arguing that.
Don't do Reviv. It is as simple as that.
And if i'm wrong... people will figure it out and complain.
Let's see who ends up being right.
See the issue with what you are writing about seems to me as treating the symptom, because if you stop wearing the mouthguard or don’t get composite then it goes back to the way it was. In my opinion if it was the cause being treated it would change it permanently do you see what I’m saying. It’s addressing the cause but it really doesn’t change it , that’s why I’m saying what I’m saying . Generally treating the cause would fix it. So it’s actually a play on words, you’re treating the cause but you are not fixing the cause, otherwise you wouldn’t have to wear the mouth guard forever. If putting composite on your molers fixed something a previous dentist should have done and that corrects the curve of spee then that would be fixing it. This Is how I am seeing it. Then I have a dillema, I don’t have molers on the bottom so what happens to me, just sayin
I think of it as... the cause is structural.
And requires a permanent structural fix.
Not any different from losing a leg on a chair. To fix the chair you need a 4th leg on the chair. Is that a "temporary" fix that you're leaving this leg to the chair that wasnt there before?
In my view its still a permanent structural fix.
You dont need to wear a mouthguard your whole life if you do some other permanent fix. Which can be for example:
1- adding flat composite on any teeth (@Gypsy - this can include putting the high contact on any teeth. I wore a splint like the NTI-tss with contact on incisors for months back in 2022 and it worked fine)
2- adapting the design of your dentures (eg. adjusting such that teeth dont fit together in a fixed position but rather have a flat contact by changing the surface of some of the teeth on the dentures a little bit)
Carol - You need to be a bit more creative than the others given that you dont have teeth. And i havent dealt with a situation like yours yet. But in my view a little bit of engineering creativity with your dentures gives you a permanent fix.
Well I think what I have to do is since I do have a less than perfect partial for my lower teeth I can still use it for the contact with the upper dentures. You said the composite should make it a little higher in the back right? Well mine is somewhat higher and although I can’t eat with it ( too loose) it’s ok for cosmetic use also I will try it tonight while I sleep.
To give credit to you and the mouth guard I felt and I finally had no more pain in my lower teeth or being so crowded that I needed to take it out. Also to my surprise my upper lip seems to have filled out where it was it was dropping on the right side starting to collapse like sinking in when you see those pictures of old ladies without dentures in like their mouth looks like a butt hole , sorry but that’s what I used to compare it with. This morning I see the improvement, plus I slept really well last night. I wish I would have taken before and during and after pictures.
hahaha yes... this is just the beginning carol. Things will continue to improve.. just keep at it.
About the composite the important elements should be that it adds vertical to your natural bite (this creates the stretch) and it doesnt lock an occlusion (meaning teeth dont come together in a fixed position).
But reality is it can be on your front or back or middle teeth. Doesnt really matter from what ive seen in my own tests.
I always just say back because it is less visible.
Yes I don’t think I’ll have to worry about having back teeth on the bottom because I have several teeth that make contact my real teeth, cause my natural teeth are all the front all the way back to unless I have two molars so they make contact and that’s why the mouthguard probably is seems to be fitting so well now and not hurting me. I don’t know why, but I don’t know if I’m gonna sleep with my bottom partial or not. I can’t find it right this minutel lol!
Actually when I have my top dentures in I have several teeth that make contact I don’t think I have to worry about not having back teeth because
I was thinking the same thing. If you're addressing the cause, it wouldn't be temporary. It doesn't make sense to me.
I too am missing most of my molars, on the top as well as on the bottom. How would I be able to change the curve of spee and keep it changed.?
as mentioned above you dont need to use your molars as your raised flat contact. It can be any teeth in the front of the mouth as well.
I also dont agree with this logic that putting a 'crutch' like composite or a mouthguard is a temporary fix just because you are reliant on it.
Almost any physics problem is the same situation.
Break a leg of a chair, you need a new one.
Flatten a tire of a car, you need a new tire.
etc
Hey Gypsy let’s try and stay in touch with each other because I’m very creative about making things that we can use as an alternative. Well where there’s a will there’s a way . The mouth guard is good, we can add things to make it work better since we don’t have the rear teeth, sound good?
I'm also conflicted about being left with an open posterior bite, but I decided a month ago my health will probably just continue to decline if I don't do something about it. I'm only 32 and kinda feel like shit. But my daily headaches of 5 years are GONE. I still have a longgggggg way to go but I deeply understand the importance of supporting my structure starting with the height of my teeth...supporting my structure from within, because I'm LIVING it now.
Also, I'm perfectly ok wearing a brace to sleep in for the rest of my life, I want to protect what I have! My teeth did not extrude all the way, that's not something I can change. Because my structure didn't develop well right out the gate I can still find ways to adapt, no matter what. Because I'm a survivor and a scrappy one at that!
I'm really eager to see how you got about this Carol! I agree with Ken, I think you can be really creative with it. I have all my teeth still but my dad doesn't have any molars left and his health has really changed in the last 10 years. I'm really hoping I can know how to help him someday.
When did he lose his molers or back teeth. I haven’t had mine for over 30 years but that’s not when my health started going downhill . About a year and a half ago my one anchor tooth that my partial clipped onto broke off at the gum line and I no longer had a tooth for my partial to stay on with. That partial was 32 yrs old well actually that was my 2nd one.
So I had a real dilemma I had 3 upper teeth that had to be extracted before I could do anything. I didn’t have enough bone to get implants. I didn’t really want to go through that long process and in hind sight I should have gotten a 2 nd opinion and maybe gotten another partial that would work. Anyway since the dentures my digestion is fucked up. Acid reflux, heartburn , headaches, recent crepitis in my neck, incontinence , you name it my scoliosis has seem to progress. My hair used to be really thick and beautiful now it’s falling out, because I can’t chew with these damn fake teeth. I’m lucky that I’m stubborn and strong willed. Anyway enough about me. Now I’m on the war path to get myself better and I can do it. With being more knowledgeable, so stick with me and watch the miracles happen, and they will . You better believe they will.
love the spirit!!! You will be bouncing around with Playboy Bunnies in your bikini by the time you're done!! :)
*go
I know, I am not trying to discount Ken but we are talking a play on words. He is addressing the root cause but not treating it or basically treating but not fixing. Fixing would suggest not having to wear a mouth guard for the rest of your life. However if the composite made it so you didn’t have to wear a mouth guard then that’s different. What about you and me though without back teeth. I do have an ill fitting lower partial which I feel the teeth are too high, but maybe that’s what the composite does. I’m really just trying to understand. I’m not sure if Ken already said somewhere, How does the curve of spee get messed up with to begin with? Shoddy dental work is that what he said.
Yes this ill fitting lower partial sounds like it is somewhat similar to what the composite does.
But you will need to either get your dentist onboard with this idea and have him adapt it such that it works like flat composite. Or you need to try to do it yourself somehow.
Curve of spee gets messed up many way:
1- tons of kids (esp in america) are born without the arches developing correctly and the teeth extruding properly
2- ortho and dental work
3- pure aging and wear & tear on your teeth
etc